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Fantasy Baseball 2013

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Bluebird Red Panda League Message Board

Pitching stats

I have maybe a dumb question. Since we are using Walks, Earned Runs, Strikeouts and WHIP as our stats for pitchers, wouldn't this favor only playing one or two pitchers a week, since your walks and earned runs would be so low you'd be likely to win those two categories, and still have a good chance of putting up a good WHIP. In other words, I'm worried that this format favors a strategy of mostly ignoring pitching. does that make sense? Sorry if I'm missing something.
there is a minimum innings pitched to validate any pitching stats
accrued in a given week. however, it is currently set at 7 innings
which is too low. I suggest moving it up a little. Perhaps around 25 innings
Maybe 20 innings would do....
It's not a dumb question. I think you're correct.


Regardless of what the minimum number of innings is, with two negative quantity pitching categories (ER, BB) and only one positive pitching category (K), the optimal strategy for most weeks will be to get to the minimum innings count and then bench all your pitchers for the rest of the week.


Considering that and the fact there are eight hitting categories and only four pitching categories, starting pitchers actually have negative value with the categories we have right now.


Very good closers have great value. If you run our league configuration through Baseball Monster, the ranking say that Craig Kimbrel would have been the most valuable player in the league last year (followed by Fernando Rodney).


On another note, I'm intrigued by triples as a category, but using it would give players who actually get triples extreme value. Mike Trout would still have been the second-most valuable player last year, but Jose Reyes would have beaten him. (Reyes was the #32 hitter in Y! standard leagues last year.) Angel Pagan (#52) would have been #3.

i also think that weighing hitting so lightly is not a good thing. I prefer to have as many hitting as pitching categories.
I just threw together the stats because I had an SB Nation deadline to set this league up... things can change. Very welcome to suggestions!
I don't really care what stats we use but I'd like for pitching and hitting to be weighed evenly if possible. Also if the pitching stats could be modified to not encourage using fewer pitchers I think that would be a good thing. I'm not sure what other people think? Maybe including IP as a stat?
Also just wanted to say that I appreciate you setting this up Minor Leaguer, and not trying to complain in any way.
Yea I know :-) How's this configuration?
I like it much better :)
It's great. Thank you Minor

Llama
Minor, thanks for updating the categories. I hate to complain again, but...


We now have 3 positive categories for starting pitchers--IP, QS, and K--but still 3 negative ones--ER, BB, and hits. These will tend to cancel each other out. Starters are more important now, but still very undervalued compared to hitters and relievers.


Running the configuration through Baseball Monster, here are some examples:


Top SPs

#13 Kris Medlen (pitched half a season)

#28 Clayton Kershaw

#34 RA Dickey

#54 Justin Verlander

#64 Matt Cain

#67 Jered Weaver

#96 David Price


Example RPs

#3 Craig Kimbrel

#4 Fernando Rodney

#6 Aroldis Chapman

#18 Sergio Romo

#20 Jason Motte

#23 Kenley Jansen

#38 Joel Peralta (led majors in holds)


In general the problem with negative categories is that they cancel out positive ones and make people want to bench their players. On the hitting side, if we have both steals and caught-stealing, they'll cancel, and most of the steals guys won't have much value.

So what are you suggesting?
Trying not to stray too far from the originals, these 12 categories would leave us without negatives:


Batting:

1B, 2B, 3B, HR, BB, SB


Pitching:

IP, QS, K, WHIP, ERA, NSVH


Since we have both IP and QS, the workhorse SPs would be very valuable: 5 of the top 6. The triples guys also have a lot of value.


If I strayed a bit farther, what I'd probably do is swap in OPS for 3B (3B are pretty rare, so they're maybe not a great H2H category), and go with NSV and HLD instead of IP and NSVH. Under those 12, the top 10 for 2012 were Cabrera, Braun, Kershaw, Trout, Dickey, Verlander, Rodney, Cano, McCutcheon, Kimbrel, which is pretty reasonable.

Anyone else want to chime in?
Yeah, I think for things like BB, H, ER, etc. we should use ratios instead of counting stats. That way starters aren't penalized for giving up more of them.

For hitting, I like using OPS instead of 3B as well. Thanks Chris.
Thank you Chris. All you said makes perfect sense. In my league (Where I am a commissioner, Rotisserie), I have the opposite problem... I don't have too many negative categories in pitching, and during the last month of the season, teams start the pitchers revolving door to catch up with WINS, HOLDS, Ks, QS....I added "TB Allowed" to compensate, but the category is hard to monitor, so it's not fun. This year I am trying "HRs Allowed" to counter the pitchers revolving door issue.

Going back to our League here. I think 3B and SB correlate pretty well, so the team that invests with the speedy players will be "double rewarded". I agree we should have one of them, and eliminate the other... you suggest OPS, which is good...although I prefer OBP, but I can go with either one.

In the pitching stats you suggest above, I think that's a good option...good mix
In head to head you cant really play catch up since you are only playing for that week.


And there is a really easy option that forces people to not sit people. Dont have a bench. Have a full active roster at all times, this also prevents people from trying to game the system and pick up a bunch of players and hold onto them prior to lineup sets and whatever else.


This is supposed to be a one off league not sure why it looks like it is getting more complicated then simple.

I don't care for streaming pitchers either. You can still do that to some extent to H2H, so my preferred way to discourage that is to have a fairly low limit on add/drops in a week, like 3 or 4.


I wouldn't be in favor of having no bench spots. Having some bench spots allows people to make decisions on how many extra hitters to carry versus extra pitchers, how to set their lineups, etc. Also, I've never played a league with no bench spots, but couldn't you still drag your guys onto the bench even if there were no official bench spots?

I have no idea how Yahoo works but most places if you have no bench spots allowed if you try to put someone there it tells you you have an illegal lineup.


Making a fun one off league like this too complicated turns people off. We have 20 people in this league and only a handful chiming in here, you make it too complicated with daily add/drops and lineup changes and I guarantee a ton of people are going to lose interest and just tune out.

You can drag your entire team to the a bench spot....as far as I know. Not being able to bench anybody kinda destroys the point of Fantasy baseball...
What its worth, I think the setup we have now with a few minor tweaks (limiting negative pitching categories I think is a good idea) mentioned above would work fine. I like the idea of replacing triples as a category - maybe total bases?. Either way, I'll still want to be involved with the league. Just wanted to add my two cents.
You may be right, John, but there are another group of people that are going to be turned off and tune out if we don't have certain things that are basic to playing fantasy, like a live draft, or getting to make lineup decisions.


It's a hard problem.


At least we can all agree that we would all like everyone to be as engaged as possible.


I don't mean to be a pain but is there any way we could still tweak the stats we are using a bit? I'm mainly concerned with the emphasis on counting stats for pitching - based on this it looks like relievers will be much more valuable than starters in our league. If everyone else is fine with it then I don't mind, just wanted to bring it up again before the draft.
What would you like to see?
The last set I suggested was:


Hitting: 1B, 2B, HR, BB, SB, OPS

Pitching: QS, K, ERA, WHIP, SV, HD

That sounds good to me